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HOMs are weird

UnrealEd 2.1 (227i) and UnrealEd 2.2 (227j), for Unreal 227. With many additions, bugfixes and improvements. Ask mapping related questions, or give hints, tips and tricks.
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scab
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HOMs are weird

Post by scab »

Hi. It's been maybe 13 years since I've played Unreal. Old KDS player here. I reinstalled to do a bit of mapping. This 2.1 editor is awesome btw, thank you!!!

I put in a few hours on a map, but stopped when I spotted HOMs. To troubleshoot I made another, simpler map and started throwing globs of poo at it. I dorked around with rotating brushes, intersecting/deintersecting brushes, imported brushes from Blender (triangulated even). OpenGL, DirectX and software rendering = all the same & nothing stuck:

Image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6hi6lofl5b5y ... d.PNG?dl=0

Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gj6035fovnjjr ... d.mp4?dl=0

UNR: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0welbqnmxgfz ... d.unr?dl=0

Maybe my specs are trash:
  • HP Folio 13-2000
  • Windows 10 Pro 64bit
  • Intel HD Graphics 3000
  • 4GB RAM
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yrex .
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by yrex . »

That's normal. That's just Unreal's overly aggressive culling.

Pretty much any PC made in last 15 years is enough for Unreal, besides buggy OS or drivers.
My work | contact: ampoyrex at wp dot pl
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Krull0r
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by Krull0r »

Hello and welcome on board :)


If you plan to make this map 227 only you can eliminate this issue by selecting all surfaces and check in the Surface Properties "NoBoundsReject"

Keep in mind this flag only exists in 227's UnrealEd 2.1. So if you play the map in older versions of Unreal it maybe wouldn't be playable or the geometry disappears again on the screen edges.


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han
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by han »

I'm like 95% certain, this got fixed recently with a fix I gave Smirftsch, which I found in HP2. The 5% are for this might been cause by something else.

But the bounding box testing code had a bug, where one point of the 8 was omited...
Last edited by han on Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scab
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by scab »

That's normal. That's just Unreal's overly aggressive culling.
Hello yrex, I read a little about occlusion/culling and I'm not sure how that applies here. If I rotate the playerstart to look directly at both of the smaller cubes, then they are neither culled or occluded, correct?

Here's what I referenced: https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Eng ... index.html
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scab
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by scab »

Hi Krull0r, checking "NoBoundsReject" worked and removed the, um . . . what is the correct way to describe this effect? Hall of Mirrors? BSP holes?

Although, according to this blip, maps could suffer performance loss with this option enabled:
https://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.ph ... nds_reject

Good to enable NoBoundsReject for everything, always?

BTW, I don't see any reason to make maps for old versions, and this 227i patch is pretty darn slick + the 2.1 editor is real nice.
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yrex .
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by yrex . »

Hello scab,

occluded = hidden behind something
culled = not drawn

[1] occlusion culling = not drawing stuff obscured by other stuff
[2] view frustum culling = not drawing stuff outside of screen
There are more types of culling...

In Unreal, both [1] and [2] aren't perfect. Your video showed what looks like [2]. Don't bother fixing it.
If I rotate the playerstart to look directly at both of the smaller cubes, then they are neither culled or occluded, correct?
Most likely.
Neither this link, nor its web archive version works.
[...] Hall of Mirrors? BSP holes?
HOM may or may not be a consequence of a BSP hole. In this case it isn't.
I don't see any reason to make maps for old versions
Considering how small the community is, I'd rather maximize my potential audience. There are also some tricks to use new features without completely breaking compatibility. However, in this case (a surface flag), this isn't a problem.
My work | contact: ampoyrex at wp dot pl
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scab
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by scab »

I'm like 95% certain, this got fixed recently with a fix I gave Smirftsch, which I found in HP2. The 5% are for this might been cause by something else.

But the bounding box testing code had a bug, where one point of the 8 was omited...
Greetings han, this makes some sense. I noticed that this effect only seems to appear with one vert when touching, or on a surface that is visible on the 'north' and 'west' walls of any room, and in this case the larger square room in the center.

In the screenshot below I have circled the vert I suspect, and the other locations it exists in the map. Rotating brushes has no effect, and the suspect vert seems to be statically positioned on any brush in space including adds & subtracts. Dunno where the vert ends up with complex, or extruded brushes from the 2D editor though. Imported brushes from Blender - a simple cube for example - the problematic vert is in the same location on the brush. The closest 'fix' I found was to rotate everything 45 degrees - the issue was still there, but far less pronounced.

Image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o881f3g78j9ve ... b.PNG?dl=0

"1" represents the suspected vertex and the first smaller cube subtracted. "2" the second cube and the vertex, and the others, 'east' and 'south' were not displaying the issue unless another area was subtracted against the circled vert and looked at from the new area.
fakeaccount

Re: HOMs are weird

Post by fakeaccount »

This is one reason for me to not make maps. Too much time wasted fighting HOMs and BSP holes.
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Re: HOMs are weird

Post by Pitbull »

Welcome to the forums. Check your pm's here. :)
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