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The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

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Leo T_C_K
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I wonder if we have someone like this on our hands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Kujau

Maybe the main forger is the ebay seller but it has to be confirmed. Either way I bet that FayiaDG is at least a co-conspirator if not the forger.

Maybe those other beta CDs are also forgeries just have not been found out. That he only had the Art CDs as genuine and thought it would add value if he did forgeries on top of his collection.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

For those who are following this thread...there was a case of mistaken data in the "definitive proof" but it has been clarified.

And it also doesn't mean this is a real build, the other points/evidence still stand. I can't believe Epic would already remove the dispersionpistol projectiles for the upgrade for the source. Unless it was not by Epic or they were incredibly very sloppy (well sometimes the person who could do the merger could have fucked up though). It makes no sense the way things are...

viewtopic.php?p=103483#p103483

We cannot trust the information from fayia either until more people start speaking.

Besides...it was shown that a pre-release build used for example in the Score magazine review already had the modern dispersion pistol effect and not those energy balls anymore. And yet it still had some beta things like the skaarjlord at queenend.

edit:
There is also another thing. Tim's log usually showed major beta releases. This is not the "test master" that was the base of other things, there's no mention of "sending it to the guys" either or whatever at the date of this build, that happened before and after. I also find this suspicious too.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I couldn't help but notice that alcapowned posted the links back elsewhere upon realizing Inoxx didn't say outright it was fake. He might not have, but I asked him what he thinks and I said explicitly
"Yes and I didn't see it on any other version of Terraniux like this. So you think this is not real?"
He did not directly answer and there was more talk otherwise. And as I said usually when there's silence that means agreement without having to be tied to those words.

And of course absolutely no mention of me anywhere there, I suppose because I'm "persona non grata"..I mean it looks as if that conversation between Inoxx and me was between alcapowned and Inoxx this way...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

May07EndgameTunnel.PNG
May07EndgameTunnelGeometry.PNG
May07EndgameTunnelP.png
This is what I had JackHonda confirm to me now...those are the deleted brushes but they were deleted AFTER the geometry was rebuilt...for some reason.

This would instead suggest this being real, because why would a faker do this when its visible that this is different? This is not cleaning up well after yourself. I have no clue anymore. Maybe Inoxx just simply indeed didn't remember and stuff. It makes no sense to me anymore...I'm fucking stressed out now and can't think straight anymore. I have few days left at most before I'm completely left to my own with nothing left....
and yet I still care about this game somehow. Despite not being able to run it for months or analyze this firsthand myself without having to rely on other people's screenshots. This destroyed me...it destroyed everything...me from the inside.....
we all fucked up

like there's stuff suggesting its fake and stuff to the opposite now

or maybe it was put together by a different team without it being properly labeled. maybe it was the dreamcast guys testing/trying it how it will all run and they chose some version as the basis and went with this. fuck...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

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Leo T_C_K wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:50 am And of course absolutely no mention of me anywhere there, I suppose because I'm "persona non grata"..I mean it looks as if that conversation between Inoxx and me was between alcapowned and Inoxx this way...
I should have framed it differently, sorry. I didn’t think the moderation would take kindly to me posting about a banned user. I edited the post accordingly.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

AlCapowned wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:42 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:50 am And of course absolutely no mention of me anywhere there, I suppose because I'm "persona non grata"..I mean it looks as if that conversation between Inoxx and me was between alcapowned and Inoxx this way...
I should have framed it differently, sorry. I didn't think the moderation would take kindly to me posting about a banned user. I edited the post accordingly.
Alright thanks...not that it really matters now I guess. My anxiety's back now. I've been managing but now everything that happened including this mess with the beta now...it put my spirits down and I am at loss.

I failed...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Its....its just...I suppose its also possible it was modified/put together by gti themselves for some internal showcases hence why no record of it at Epic etc...they might have went over the head there if you get what I mean.
That could explain the inconsistency and messed up stuff, maybe partially the producers were responsible. We can't know for sure. Someone messed up bad that's for sure, with this version, including lack of skaarjbot. Whether its real or not.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Do you think I'm stupid? I still think this is FAKE. I compared footage of various Unreal trailers including the final one (and that one was recorded on an earlier version where rifle has the three burst and the nali sounds)...on the higher quality version I can see that the corpse in the exploding vortex2 corridor has the same bug as the release version. You want to tell me they fixed it for this version and not the other? FAT CHANCE. Fuck off. And yrex too really, you're a suspect now in my eyes.

There's really so far my tolerance and disbelief is going to go. I don't buy the endgame stuff still either. Why would those deleted brushes still have the same number as the stuff in the released version unless they were added later for plausibility and then deleted? Ha that's the thing now isn't it?


trailers i took look at

(notice the inserted sounds here not confirmed if the sound from dispersion pistol in the may 7 build is exactly the same but it sounds to me like it)
https://discmaster.textfiles.com/view/2 ... unreal.avi


https://discmaster.textfiles.com/view/1 ... l_3min.mov
that clearly shows the texture being wrong in the ventilation corpse while in the may 7 version its fixed like fucking 227

EDIT:
Now to make my reasoning clearer...yrex has been proven wrong on multiple points of evidence already. He technically lied even by pretending not to know about certain 200 behavior etc.
And he manipulated multiple people behind the scenes into thinking this is real. Two people have already quit (gamesharder for example, I'm not mentioning the other person).
And nearly framing me too if I didn't come with the evidence correction I guess. So...I wonder. Has he perhaps not intended this to be sold on?
Nobody knows anything about him let alone his first legal name. Yet he's trusted as the overall expert. Expert maybe at reverse engineering and other coding. Like the famed "Rick" that created maybe a fake 1995 quake beta and then claimed fake on a different one. So is yrex "Morty" then?
Btw I don't watch and never watched that series but I keep hearing the references.

In his video he claims the evidence is not conclusive. Hmm...what arrogance. But the nwfalcon beta has been "proven" fake underlined just because he did. Its all about ego points. This community often grows sociopaths.

Why did yrex claim the skin was identical when it wasn't? When there was a sudden by hand masking fix for the krall elite beta skin.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Also again...there are actually too many changes for this to be plausibly real so close to release...

Look even the 3min trailer has shown those flickering lights/wires being present there in that room of isvdeck1. The rest of the changes comes from the strategy guide knowledge. Easy to reproduce...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:21 pm Do you think I'm stupid? I still think this is FAKE. I compared footage of various Unreal trailers including the final one (and that one was recorded on an earlier version where rifle has the three burst and the nali sounds)...on the higher quality version I can see that the corpse in the exploding vortex2 corridor has the same bug as the release version. You want to tell me they fixed it for this version and not the other? FAT CHANCE. Fuck off. And yrex too really, you're a suspect now in my eyes.

I just want to clarify what I meant here and who I was adressing with "do you think I'm stupid"..I was adressing the faker(s) here. Not like a post above me or something.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I might have misidentified the sound for the dispersionpistol explo...I think its instead from that PC Gamer footage where this was heard...
either way its still similar to that sound in the trailer
edit:
But its really not it...I just compared both. This sound does it exist in 200 still?
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Yes the "may 7" beta dispersion pistol sound is exactly the same as the leftover sound in the 200 original release. This and the fact that both the may 7 beta and the 200 version have the bug when trying to export sounds via unreal editor (and utpt works on both apparently) leads me to think this is a fake and is yet another conclusive evidence in the pile of evidences.

The UTPT part itself might not be evidence though because it might "forgive" if the package is close enough to the version/structure.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Its really difficult to be fully conclusive on all these things. I mean the 3min trailer also suggests the movers weren't fully fine and sometimes had lighting bugs though its difficult to spot. But it could have also been easily reversed in the source code too.

Its really strange and difficult given this is a beta supposedly so close to release. Yet so many things point to it being a fake now.

It turns out I did ask Inoxx about the endgame thing (but forgot) and it was before he said that line about not remembering it that way. So I can assume he spoke about that too. Really really strange.

I mean he usually remembers his maps well, his UT maps he could describe well including the fact that there was even earlier ctf-face from the 1998 days that had more on the inside (plus also that it started/was supposed to be in a terrain...
Also even the Cryox stuff. He has trouble remembering the early maps he made when he was in France but when he was in Canada its usually very accurate and clear with him.

edit: It looks like the 200 maps might not load on the may 7 beta, as expected, however on the other hand I am not sure how to explain that if this is fake....but a good programmer/reverse engineer could make that happen.

EDIT2: cratch that, actually no they don't run...only maps that were saved later don't...but the stuff in the initial release version does run here...

so that might mean indeed that its fake..because release dmariza runs on it etc...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Also Killthecowgame is identical to that extracted march script, the only change from that is the converted call from callparent to super...but the code has not any change otherwise compared to my 200 port. The default properties difference between my port and this may 7 version is this:
the may 6/7 version:

Code: Select all

defaultproperties
{
     ReturnHeadScore=5.000000
     CaptureHeadScore=30.000000
     bSpawnInTeamArea=True
     MaxTeams=2
}
My 200 port:

Code: Select all

defaultproperties
{
     bSpawnInTeamArea=True
     MaxTeams=2
}
It means they set it the same except for the scores which I basically let up to any player/user to set up.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Though the rest of the actors associated with killthecow do have more defaultproperties than what was in the february version and what couldn't have been gotten in the march extracts due to the full game missing and default properties aren't there. Not that someone couldn't do it however that would suggest it could be real and that for some reason they deleted mesh from sacredcow's properties or whatever...

Its for sure not one of the main betas Epic sent out so I still guess the possibility of someone at GT messing with it/adding their own fixes/breaking things is possible, if they wanted to show it off to someone. Its still a mystery how it happened but we know that the french GTi for example made a bonus disc with votlan on it and that was taken from some pre-release and modified, due to presence of those beta movers etc.
Its just everything can be recreated based on trailers/screenshots and info from strategy guides. And some stuff (if this is fake) could have been added/removed when they gave up, like the fans on outpost 3j not being there and they are there in ALL versions of strategy guides, including the interactive one.

So yea if this is real its basically a FORK that had some stuff fixed while other stuff COMPLETELY BROKEN.

Like music loading in savegames is fixed, the female corpse issue is fixed (both fixes present within 227 as well afaik)...while the maps are a mess full of bsp holes and hatily copied stuff often.
And suddenly the release version doesn't have those fixes and yet the game is otherwise stable even when it comes to maps.

Its really interesting the more you examine all this. And I'd really really like if someone could find those screenshots of that one betatest that had the "beta" text on the translator and to compare those two things. Because that was also a thing but I can't find the website anymore.

So can Cliff be asked by someone still? GamesHarder asked him but Gamesharder disappeared also...

I mean about authorship of Solaris and showing him screenshots.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Another thing pointing to this being fake is the mess with the dispersionpistol related classes.
If you don't recall the released game version has that "plasma" test projectile.
Now it has by default some code copied from dispersionammo because both are basically the same thing.
Except Plasma is in the may 7 version like the released version while dispersionammo is a beta class. Look at this inconsistency:

Code: Select all

function ProcessTouch (Actor Other, vector HitLocation)
{
        If ( (Other!=Instigator) && Other.IsA('DispersionAmmo') )
                Explode(HitLocation, HitLocation);
}
It references dispersionammo...the release version dispersionammo at that. Like I said even the score review version already had the blue projectiles.
So what is this meant to be? This is another thing pointing to it as fake.
yea...forgers don't notice such details and forked off classes well. Even if this was a GT-made fork, this makes absolutely NO SENSE.

there's also "dispproj" which is completely unused. I wonder how it looks when summoned in this beta.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Lol that dispproj is some real fuckery when the old effects are applied to it...

look (screenshots by jackhonda).
DispProj.PNG
DispProjShot1.png
He can also finally run the old editor again now so that's a plus.

Either way I was thinking. Those defaultproperties. Maybe someone did manage to get it out of the March version after all. Maybe even yrex and lied about it. After all he was effectively able to "reverse engineer" many of the old builds, make tools that mess with a lot of stuff, including package version number. Yrex is the only one who would technically be able to do it all but might have been able to trick other people into helping. Plus we had the original dmvilla2. It was confirmed to be package version 36, which is the same as this "beta".

So....if you add one and one...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I am running some tests via jackhonda regarding KTC still. The teamgame/botinfo doesn't account for team bots, so you have to editactor class=bots
in the game to switch their team in "None" from 0 to 1 in order for them to be on the other team.

If this is real then its no wonder ktc was abandoned if even teamgame wasn't fully ready for use with bots back then. No wonder that BotPack became a priority afterwards. I just don't get why they shuffled with the bot classes so much, first it was INSIDE the playerpawns, then it separated into bots in scriptedpawns and past 220 even outside of scriptedpawns. Its such a great mess really.

They had bots working already halfway 1997 as playerpawns being controlled. Yet the teamgame stuff was neglected until the last moment? why?

Btw it might have been the case also in the beta I played back in the day that the bots didn't have real team support. There was certainly some stuff going on but it was also thought at the time that it was thanks to the fact the computer that had the beta was infected with virus and thus some strange behavior might have occured but not sure if that is really the case.

A virus could not have messed with the beta structure itself though unless it was designed to mess with Unreal LOL.

So far I am finding conflicting evidence often...things that imply this is taken from 200 and yet things that would say otherwise.

I never encountered such a situation before. And I dunno what to think or do anymore...same kind of IRL.....like I'm grasping onto the last things to hold me above the water IRL.

What would also point to it being fake is DmMorbias. It doesn't have the team sides unlike released Morbias with one side being blue and other red.

The red/blue morbias was taken from KTCMorbias and they decided it was cool so they kept it for the dm version. Its still however possible that they did it right before release only....but its weird if that was the case.

Also DispProj is a new/unique class then? Thouh it reminds me of those particles attached to the dispersionammo in 200-219 and oldweapons mod....
but looking wrong this way....just wtf is even going on here....

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

This is a fake ktcmorbias put together by jackhonda. its modified form the version of dmmorbias tht was included (even though the released one could have worked and would have been better due to the blue and red sides).

morbiastest

there should be modified unreali.u that fixes the cows. he might have also added back the dp upgrade graphics but not sure if he did in the end. Just that the cow's mesh is set to nalicow back from none. Otherwise you have to deal with invisible sacredcows or have to do set sacredcow mesh nalicow. Make sure to set bnomonsters false on killthecow too....

this is for the may 7 version then. Its so undecisive really...there's all kind of small differences/things that point out in either direction. Dispprojectile is unique but anyone could have created it too....then again the mesh is different...maybe its all frm experimentation phases on the dispersionpistol.

I really wish this was simpler.....

like why would they also revert morbias to the earlier lighting unless the decision to roll back to the ktc version came later because it was cooler with the double side...

edit: for some reason that UnrealI.u got dropped .u from the file so rename it to that after copying please.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

One weird thing is that jackhonda can run this editor as "administrator" while the 200 Unreal one not at all...
which could imply that it is fake and was compiled against later stuff/libraries.

anyways that "beta" is a complete jumble of resources and whether they're real on itself is mystery now?

its for sure not a review beta or something epic sent out themselves. that has been verified. by both tim's log and inoxx's words given he doesn't remember it being like this.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

When we were discussing the authenticity of the beta with gamesharder, he sent me this screenshot saying that these krall skins were going to be re-used in a level pack or so.
So it makes sense if they added the masking fix or whatever. No it doesn't actually, I mean they didn't do it even by the time of the march build.
Besides that screenshot is originally from late february 1998 lol. It was from Eric Reuter's "Fusion Creative Design" level pack that had a few members. This is the pack that was going to be bundled with some Intel product later on but most likely didn't happen. This is where "skyecr", the edited version of skycity (it lacks the intro) from upsx's e1l6 is from originally.

The screenshot still shows masking issues especially on hardware acceleration. When they decided to make different skins already around April 1998, they wouldn't bother changing the krallelite one (I think). That was my argument at least but things got out of hand instead.
I mean this screenshot is not evidence and actually proves my point, because as you know, epic and ecr's "company" started their respective level packs before the game was released. And I have the original date of the screenshot with the original archive it came with, it was screenshots directly from Eric.

If they were going to reuse those skins and I doubt it, it was going to be later anyways. This wasn't firestorm or something where turboman literally re-used them.

And this kind of "by hand" fix is unusual for Epic, they usually processed it by some color replacer or whatever. And not like this ever. That makes it weird and unlikely about that skin.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

These are the screenshots I passed along to Inoxx:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/aoakese9 ... s.zip/file

I believe the same should be done Cliff if someone managed to reach him. This also shows the "ugly" aligment.

edit: I just noticed that there is one difference between the plasma of may 7 and release and that is the ballexplosion being present....

I need to verify something now...I might have come to the wrong conclusion then.
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Okay I can't verify it. Because apparently it was only on unrealtexture (not in any of the archived ones as it was in s subdirectory).

there was stuff like this

864vClasses.rar 2016-01-03 16:18 65K
866qclasses.rar 2016-01-03 16:18 53K
867zclasses.rar 2016-01-03 07:17 79K
871d.rar 2015-12-31 16:57 111K
874dscript.rar 2015-12-31 16:49 141K
Milestone5Emissary08..> 2016-01-03 16:18 56K
Unreal88classes.rar 2015-11-30 12:43 190K
XCOM867z.rar 2016-01-10 18:00 6.1K
exportclassesu97098.rar 2015-11-16 10:26 236K
exportclassesu98099.rar 2015-11-16 10:31 240K

And its missing. I can't export the classes again now. besides it was even done with the editors before it broke durin some windows update before the alternateued was necessary.

I didn't realize this so the only place where this was stored was the windows machine still and perhaps whoever downloaded it.

And that's the one thing I don't have now. HOW CAN I DO RESEARCH THIS WAY?!

I need those classes for comparison...at least of Unreal 88...
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

EDIT: go to the bottom for the other conclusion...

Okay my bad...

apparently the "Plasma" code is based on the Unreal 88 code which had that projectile that was still similar to the asmd altfire and basically used the same mesh just with different dimensions.

I did view 88 UnrealI.u just via text editor and this is what I saw (i don't need the defaultproperties)

That cross mesh was used multiple times but imported with different dimensions for each projectile, I believe also for "Arc".

Code: Select all

//=============================================================================
// DispersionAmmo.
//=============================================================================
class DispersionAmmo expands Projectile;

#exec MESH IMPORT MESH=DispersionProj ANIVFILE=MODELS\Cross_a.3D DATAFILE=MODELS\Cross_d.3D X=0 Y=0 Z=0
#exec MESH ORIGIN MESH=DispersionProj X=0 Y=0 Z=0 YAW=64
#exec MESH SEQUENCE MESH=DispersionProj SEQ=All    STARTFRAME=0   NUMFRAMES=1
#exec MESH SEQUENCE MESH=DispersionProj SEQ=Still  STARTFRAME=0   NUMFRAMES=1
#exec MESHMAP NEW MESHMAP=DispersionProj MESH=DispersionProj
#exec MESHMAP SCALE MESHMAP=DispersionProj X=0.005 Y=0.005 Z=0.01
#exec MESHMAP SETTEXTURE MESHMAP=DispersionProj NUM=1 TEXTURE=Default

var vector X,Y,Z;       
var float Rand;


function Explode(vector HitLocation)
{
        Spawn(class'BallExplosion',, '', HitLocation, Rotation(VRand()));
        HurtRadius(Damage,150.0, 'exploded', HitLocation );     
        Destroy();
}

auto state Flying
{

function ProcessTouch (Actor Other, vector HitLocation)
{
        If (Other!=Instigator  && DispersionAmmo(Other)==None)
                Explode(HitLocation);
}


function HitWall (vector HitNormal)
{
        Explode(Location);      
}


Begin:
        GetAxes(Instigator.ViewRotation,X,Y,Z); 
        Velocity = (X dot Instigator.Velocity) * X +            // Impart ONLY forward
                Vector(Rotation) * Speed;                                       // Velocity 
        RotationRate.Pitch = FRand()*10000-50000;
        RotationRate.Yaw = FRand()*10000-50000;
        RotationRate.Roll = FRand()*10000-50000;
        DesiredRotation = Rotation(Vrand());
        PlaySound(SpawnSound);
}
Its not the same though...also plasma always used the IsA call while this was direct....and the plasma didn't take damage but they obviously went back to that for testing...back to the cross mesh just made that mesh longer with new import code...

edit: nah actually its not the same mesh, this one is cross while the other one is cros_t

#exec MESH IMPORT MESH=plasma ANIVFILE=MODELS\cros_t_a.3D DATAFILE=MODELS\cros_t_d.3D X=0 Y=0 Z=0

but probably derived from the same thing

edit2: I also verified via jackhonda that the modified krall skin doesn't seem to be from any mod that we might know (though I might not know every mod out there that reused those skins but they might display fine on regular unreal just not on the old versions...I dunno).
hmm
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Re: The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I suppose that after looking at everything I must conclude that yrex couldn't have done it I guess. Not that technically it isn't possible but now when looking at everything it seems way less likely. It might be real despite being a real mess. I suppose they must have taken out SkaarjBot if it was unstable and someone liked some beta stuff enough to keep it there as leftover...maybe.

That's the only logical thing I can think of now.

So if you read this yrex I suppose I am taking you off the "suspect list" lol.

Now can someone PLEASE help me find those screenshots with the "beta" text on the translator? There were some whether in some magazine or loose. I am sure of it.

Also apparently jackhonda can run the editor on the 88 beta too...maybe he has installed some older libraries somewhere instead and that's why it works...
strange but that discounts the possibility that I alluded to before

yrex was still wrong about many details and the attitude in which he dismissed my findings without actually facing me, that I found appaling and why I suspected him
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